Curse

selber · Aug 17, 2007, 01:47 AM // 01:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex Silverfox

What if a monk is not predictable and wait randomly to cast a skill?

Well, if you play against bad players it's sometimes alot harder to "guess" actually. A bad monk will use his Zealous Benediction right before he drops below 50% maybe for no reason or don't use his skills as expected, because he makes too many mistakes or has a bad reaction time.

As a Warrior you will see the same thing if you run Bullstrike; - In most cases it's much more effective against good players than against bad players, because Mr.-Bad-Player don't try to kite.

Bullstrike: The worst skill you can bring in RA.

kazjun · Aug 17, 2007, 05:16 AM // 05:16

Bots already exist, they're called heroes. So why doesn't every team load up with norgu's to interrupt people? Cause heroes are idiots. All reflexes and no brain. That's why they're really just an annoyance in pvp.

Did the 'bot' interrupt everything, or did he only pick off select spells? Cause that kinda shows if he was thinking or just spamming, though you shouldn't underestimate a good spam. If you got a war train on someone, you can be sure their monk is going to try something, so you just hit him as soon as he looks like he's stopped moving.

And as plenty have said, you can't always be random. A monk who doesn't cast to save a team mate just cause he doesn't want to be interrupted is just useless. I mean, what, he's going to dance around for a second while his team mate goes down? Catching a 1/4 spell at random at the start of the match, I can't say that I could do that. But once a spike starts on someone, I can usually catch the spells the monks try to cast. There are always times where monks have to cast, and the other team knows it. Their interrupters will be sitting on you, and they'll interrupt you or your team mate dies. Simple as that. Just human intuition and experience.

Pwny Ride · Aug 17, 2007, 05:28 AM // 05:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Curse You

If you were right, no one would buy gold. But they do, because they don't play for the fun, they play because they want to be "uber 1337" and the only way they can do that is by cheating.

However right you are, owning the economy with your 'uber 1337 g0ld buy1ng sk1llz' is not nearly as satisfying as interrupting someone with your interruption skills.

Ghost Recon · Aug 17, 2007, 08:13 AM // 08:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

untrained human reaction time is in the .19 - .22s range. for trained FPS gamers, that reaction time is lowered to around .16s.

You can't really give an average as there are factors involved, how old the person is and if they are male of female. Women tend to be 0.02-0.04 seconds slower than men for a start and humans have there quickest reaction times between the age of 16-22. Quite a lot of PvP players tend to be between the age of 14-24 and male and the average for there reaction times is around 0.16-0.18.

Iron Monkey · Aug 17, 2007, 08:23 AM // 08:23

That's what I love about mesmer. That all interupt thing requires a lot of know-how. I rarely see idiot interrupt mesmers. It takes skills (and a good network connection).

1/4 spells are virtually instantenous with fast casting. I am not sure if the ping displayed in the bottom-right corner is a full return trip or only client->server. From what I see, it's only 1/2 the trip. But assuming an average ping of 150 ms...

time 0 : Monk cast 3/4 spell
time 150 : server receives cast command.
time 150 : cast animation is sent to all players from server.
time 300 : mesmer receives packet.
time 450 : mesmer cast interrupt (150 ms reaction time).
time 500 : interrupt cast and sent to the server.
time 650 : interrupt cast received by server and applied.

so it could take 500 ms between the time the monk spell is applied, and the time the server receives the interrupt request. That's still below the 3/4 second time, and allow for some tolerance (processing time on server, more lag). It still requires extremely fast reaction times (150 ms).

In any case, Mesmers can anticipate casts, especially in PvE, it's a lot easier since NPCs are a lot more predictable. Interrupt is fun, and underrated in PvE. It's not damage, but like KDs it helps a lot to get through mobs especially in hard mode. All that makes me want to resurrect mine...

Iron Monkey · Aug 17, 2007, 08:26 AM // 08:26

Oh, and of course they use key binds. I bind my 'life saver' to mouse4, and it makes a lot of difference when monking.

Alex Silverfox · Aug 17, 2007, 09:40 AM // 09:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by selber

Well, if you play against bad players it's sometimes alot harder to "guess" actually. A bad monk will use his Zealous Benediction right before he drops below 50% maybe for no reason or don't use his skills as expected, because he makes too many mistakes or has a bad reaction time.

Sure, the know-how is important to read the monk "mind". Let's say here the mouse (monk) wants to be smarter than the cat (mesmer). The monk knows he may be predictable. So what do I to counter interrupts?
1) I get advantage of my 1/4 cast skills, they are not interruptable for sure on purpose they are just predictable but still is needed a lot of luck. I can chain them with a very low risk like rof->ps-->rof while doing this maybe I made the mesmer waste an interrupt if it's based on mere reflects (he saw a simbol appear and he pressed the interrupt)
2) For longer time cast skills I may wait a bit more ( a bit that can vary randomly to be not predictable) or for example ZB: I can cast it starting from 50% of my life, the interrupter knows, so he wait my life to drop under 50% and as soon as he see me casting he tries to block me, unlucky I may trow a rof there... interrupt wasted I may freely cast ZB suddenly after. I can start a 5 mana skill and cancel the action (and the mesmer may waste interrupt again).
3) A 20-20 fast casting set, with a bit of luck on my side I may cast them really quickly. Needed as hell with a migraine.
4) Running out of range and quickly cast, I know usually they follow me till the hell but hey I'm the mouse ^^

The sum is: try everything to not be catched by the cat.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kazjun

Did the 'bot' interrupt everything, or did he only pick off select spells? Cause that kinda shows if he was thinking or just spamming, though you shouldn't underestimate a good spam. If you got a war train on someone, you can be sure their monk is going to try something, so you just hit him as soon as he looks like he's stopped moving.

Everything but when interrupt skills were loaded. A power block on a ZB bar on the gifth of health I wouldn't call it smart, would you? can you spam that much PB and Power spike to catch spells by pure luck? I dont think so.

Patrick Smit · Aug 17, 2007, 12:55 PM // 12:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghost Recon

The average human reaction time is 0.16s and a pro gamer should be a the very least half of that.

I agree with you on most of the stats you give elsewhere in this topic, but I disagree on the statement quoted. Nerve cells have limitations they maximally conduct pulses with a speed of up to 100 meter per second (1). So from the eye to arm takes at about 5 to 8 milliseconds minimal (50-80 cm in total), but then we did not adjust for slower speeds in the brain, and the decision making itself which is not a simple linear flow scheme of pulses. Now, the eye needs to convert light to pulse as well, as should the motor neuron trigger muscle action that requires time too tense too. 0.08 seconds reaction times (or lower) consistently is just physically impossible. Yes, in experiments people can score like that, but does that mean the have a real good reaction or do they gamble? I personally think it is the latter one, as physics are quite reliable (biochemistry is consistent like classical physics), while determining whether one person gambles or not is not reliably measurable. A small test and its analyses online show that my analyses is most likely right and confirms my hypothesis, 2 gamblers (ther are "faster" then physics allow), and reaction times of 0.09 or higher (2).

(1) http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu...nervecell.html
(2) http://hypertextbook.com/facts/2006/reactiontime.shtml

crimsonfilms · Aug 17, 2007, 01:42 PM // 13:42

Yep on above.

As I said, people interrupting 1/4 cast is doing based it based on luck+spamming -aka gambling. Nothing to do with skill.

So those claiming it, please stop. You are making claims that is impossible to make.

seekjy · Aug 17, 2007, 03:46 PM // 15:46

Interruption bots exist, and they cannot hit 1/4 casts with any kind of reliability. They can however, hit 1/2 second (1/4 with migraine) and slower casts consistently.

1/4 casts are not possible to hit purely reactively, primarily because of latency. While it's possible to reach a 100% hit rate on them in certain circumstances (e.g., interruption while getting up from KD, interrupting a combo like Glyph Renewal/Divine Spirit, interruption immediately after shame), hitting them as frequently as 25% of the time out of the blue would require both an exceptional ability to predict someone's skill usage, and a fair bit of luck.

Alex Silverfox · Aug 17, 2007, 04:20 PM // 16:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by seekjy

Interruption bots exist, and they cannot hit 1/4 casts with any kind of reliability. They can however, hit 1/2 second (1/4 with migraine) and slower casts consistently.

1/4 casts are not possible to hit purely reactively, primarily because of latency. While it's possible to reach a 100% hit rate on them in certain circumstances (e.g., interruption while getting up from KD, interrupting a combo like Glyph Renewal/Divine Spirit, interruption immediately after shame), hitting them as frequently as 25% of the time out of the blue would require both an exceptional ability to predict someone's skill usage, and a fair bit of luck.

I agree 100%

thor hammerbane · Aug 18, 2007, 03:05 AM // 03:05

Cs player myself.
Interupted RoF many times, you just have to predict it. The monks are more bots than the mesmers. If you e-burn or shatter enchant a monk (80-120 dmg), They will obviously use some kind of spell..and there we go with power spike! about 80% of the time it works.